In “All’s Well That Ends Well”, currently delighting audiences at The Old Globe’s outdoor Festival Stage, Helena and Bertram are a famously mismatched pair—she’s head-over-heels, he’s halfway out the door. But bringing this thorny romantic comedy to life are two actors with sharp insight and a sense of humor about the emotional chaos they’re navigating onstage.

We had a he said / she said style interview with Ismenia Mendes, who plays the determined and love-struck Helena, and Gabriel Brown, who takes on the role of the reluctant heartthrob Bertram. Offstage, the two are thoughtful, funny, and refreshingly honest about playing Shakespeare’s most complicated almost-couple.

First things first: let’s meet the star-crossed pair at the center of this not-so-traditional love story and the arc audiences can expect for them.

The cast of *All’s Well That Ends Well*, 2025. Photo by Rich Soublet II.

Ismenia Mendes: My first impression of Helena was that she vividly reminded me of an obsessive teenager. Almost cartoonish, at least in the first half of the play. She feels very young, very naive, and very fixated. I wanted to lean into her oddities and extreme emotions. And I'm so glad I did. The glasses feel like the key that unlocked her for me.

I think Helena gets the most joy from curing the king. She's a doctor at heart, and she's also an orphan. I think she sees a bit of a father figure in the king and relishes the chance to help him. With the caveat that he, of course, will help her... She's no dummy; she's a woman operating in a man's world, in a man's profession. But I think her blind ambition and naïveté are some of her greatest assets. She wholeheartedly believes she's up to any challenge.

Gabriel Brown: Peter Francis James, our director, really wanted to emphasize that not only Bertram but all of these characters are incredibly front-footed. Bertram acts before he has taken the time to really think through the choices he’s making. We wanted to lean into the buoyant energy of a boy who isn’t really taking the time to reflect but is just moving through life on impulse. My approach was really trying to find his earnestness. Instead of playing him as a jerk, really trying to find the places where he’s doing the best he can, given his upbringing and what he was told to expect from his life.

Throughout the show, they each learn and grow, and, in a sense, transform, emerging as different people by the end. Helena may have left behind the glasses and the braid, but she has blossomed into a new version of herself, while Bertram has matured into a more thoughtful person who learns from his past decisions.

Ismenia: I think Judy (Costume Designer Judith Dolan) and Peter would argue that it's less about a makeover and more about her growing up and blossoming into a woman. I do feel like it slips a little into romcom makeover territory, and it's the main reason I put another one of her snort laughs in there at the end - she's still Helena: A nerdy doctor with a whole lot of ambition. And she's nothing if not resourceful. So it makes sense to me that she's gonna pull out ALL the stops in her final push to get her way. She has no reservations about using whatever powers she has at her disposal.

Gabriel: Bertram certainly has some growing up to do, doesn’t he? You know as does Helena. Ismenia and I talked a lot about how both of these characters are flawed and cause emotional strife to each other. We really wanted the play to be about both Bertram's and Helena’s emotional maturing. Also, how love, especially young love, is messy all around.

After working with the director Peter Francis James, I feel that we were able to distill and specify Bertram’s journey, which made it easier to see his arc. We compared Bertram’s journey to a kid (who’s been a bit pampered by his mother) that is finally leaving the house/going to college. He has all these ideas about what his life is going to be like in the big city, and then out of nowhere, he’s forced into a marriage he doesn’t want. And because he doesn’t have the most mature communication skills, he runs away! He goes on the adventure of life, has his first crush/love, experiences his first true betrayal from a friend (Paroles), and experiences war! He goes to the “College of Hard Knocks” and then is forced to look at all the decisions he’s made at the end of the play. He and Helena both have to look at what they’ve done to each other and then make the choice to choose each other, for better or worse.

One of the biggest challenges of this play is what isn’t said. Shakespeare doesn’t give Bertram a grand apology or a redemptive soliloquy. His change of heart comes quickly, without much explanation, which allows Mendes and Brown to interpret and approach this together in a way that is hopeful and generous to both characters.

Gabriel: The way we approached it was, finally he is hit with all the repercussions of his actions. I mean, Diana (whom he was trying to woo) was almost taken to jail and executed. Bertram is hit like a tidal wave by how his actions have affected the people around him, and he utters “O pardon” very quickly. He asks forgiveness because there is nothing else to say.

Ismenia: What I see at the end is a scared boy being asked to grow up. I see a scared boy asking for a second chance. “All's Well That Ends Well” is an unfinished play, and it was never produced while Shakespeare was alive. I think Bertram and Helena's ending is also unfinished. As it is, I think the play ends with their beginning. I think what we're seeing is two people starting their journey together and agreeing that they both have a lot of work to do.

(foreground) Ismenia Mendes as Helena and Gabriel Brown as Bertram with the cast of *All’s Well That Ends Well*, 2025. Photo by Rich Soublet II.

For all its comedic twists, the heart of the play lies in what happens after the final bow. Helena and Bertram end up together—but should they? And what does that even look like? Mendes and Brown share their take on the couple’s post-curtain fate.

Ismenia: I don't know if they make it or not. What I do know is they both agree to try. And that's really all anyone can hope for, isn't it?

Gabriel: This is a great question. I’ve always believed the sequel to this play is “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?”. I think they stay together, but boy, do they put each other through a hell of a marriage.

Even with the complicated love story at the center, the play is full of juicy moments for both the actors and the audience. From tension-filled traps to tender reckonings, Mendes and Brown each point to scenes that they especially enjoy performing or look forward to the audience experiencing.

Ismenia: I am obsessed with the battle ballet that opens Act 2. I think it perfectly encapsulates the spirit of our show. It delights me to no end.

Gabriel: I love it when the audience is not happy with the rejection scene at the beginning of the play. I like hearing that, and giving myself the challenge of seeing if I can convince them to see things from Bertram’s perspective by the end of the play. Maybe even forgive some of his questionable choices.

Performing outdoors always brings its kind of drama—and not just the Shakespearean kind. Set against the stunning backdrop of Balboa Park, "All’s Well That Ends Well" shares its stage with everything from evening breezes to the occasional commentary from the neighboring zoo. Ismenia and Gabriel reflect on the joys and surprises of performing under the open sky.

Gabriel: Oh, it’s the best. And it is the optimal venue for Shakespeare, I believe. Being able to make your case directly into the eyes of the audience member in front of you. The audience truly is your scene partner in Shakespeare, and working outdoors, you can actually see their faces.

Ismeina: Honestly? It's magical.